WHY DO YOU HATE STANCE ???

"DatASSun" (DatASSun) 01/15/2014 at 17:05 • Filed to: None

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Ok I'll open the big ass can of worms .. Whats everyone problem with stance ?

We never mocked the low rider guys for putting hydraulics on cars.. I just want to know why ?

is it only based off of the fact that the cars that are "Stanced" are Form > Function?

does it involve the people who are into the "Stance" thing that makes you not like the cars cause that might as well be some form of racism ..

offroadkarter > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:06

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putting 3000 dollar rims on a 500 dollar base model car isn't cool

there I said it, among many other things when we've covered this exact topic a thousand times

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:07

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I don't. But I won't get into this argument AGAIN. :)

Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:07

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I hate it because everyone who seems to do it is a major douchebag, and in my wonderful opinion, it looks like horse shit.

DatASSun > offroadkarter 01/15/2014 at 17:08

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Well I wasnt in the previous conversation ..

But if I put 3000 in motor work to a 500 dollar car its cool ?

Party-vi > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:08

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Guys don't *usually* make low riders out of performance cars suited for the track, while stancing an M3 or GTI completely ruins the possible performance of the vehicle.

Nevermind the fact that most of the stanced cars weren't ever going to see a track anyway and it's done to personal taste so it shouldn't matter, but what do I know...

offroadkarter > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:09

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its certainly more functional, at least you can still drive it w/o fear of ripping your car to pieces when you run over a leaf

DatASSun > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 01/15/2014 at 17:09

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Understood I'm asking you to go to war ... its a Wednesday afternoon and your at your desk like I am playing it safe ..

DatASSun > offroadkarter 01/15/2014 at 17:11

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So for you its the fact that these are just for show .. and not functional at all ...

It's odd how Stance gets crap for not being functional but some of these show cars are never driven and they have huge motors and chrome everything to me that is a bigger slap in the face then some kid who slams his honda on the ground and saves all his money for wheels .. atleast he still drives it right ?

Saracen > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:12

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"We never mocked the low rider guys for putting hydraulics on cars.."

Speak for yourself.

It's all just different flavors of stupid.

Gamecat235 > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:12

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Three words. Done.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:12

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I'm against any modification that takes the inherent goodness or ability of a car and throws it out the window for style.

See also: lowered 4x4 pickups/SUVs

MonkeePuzzle > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:12

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I dont hate stance, I love it! Its the perfect look for cars, works great on matchbox

505 - morphine not found > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:13

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Look, low-riders are cruisers, and as far as i'm concerned, 90% of the cars they modifiy to ride low, were cruisers to begin with. So even though its pretty loud and brash way of mod, it is completely in alignment with the original design of the cars modded - just turned up to 11.

Stancing a sports car though? Stancing it so much, you cannot go over a speed bump, and have to go 20mph everywhere, because it just doesn't work over that? That's the complete opposite of what these cars where meant to do, and ruins them in every single way.

Yes, they look good, at least the better examples do. But you only stance a sports car, if you don't want to drive it - and that's just plain, garden-variety wrong .

PanchoVilleneuve ST > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:13

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I have no problem with form over function. At all. I think the problem a lot of people have with stance in general is how so many of the cars that get the treatment are sporting in nature, and stancing them out tends to spoil the handling to a massive degree. And then there's how even non-sporting cars tend to become much less usable as cars after they've been stanced.

The new regular car reviews explains this very well:

I have nothing against dropping a car down like that, or even lower, but look at most cars that have been bagged and dropped so low the frame rails practically touch the ground: they still have an air setup that lets the driver raise the car up to a sane level in order to be able to drive it around.

DatASSun > Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur 01/15/2014 at 17:13

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Understood .. I'm open to opinions here ..

Thats like me hating anyone with a BMW or Audi .. I agree there are a decent amount of "stance people" (going to have to copyright that asap before they take it and embrace it ) that are D Bags .. but that can go across the board for different car cliques .. except people with volvo's they are always nice ..

MonkeePuzzle > Party-vi 01/15/2014 at 17:14

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I can agree with this, but how would you feel about an M3 bought as salvage wiht a blown motor getting stanced?

CobraJoe > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:14

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My number 1 complaint: Function.

If something looks extremely cool yet eliminates some core function of the vehicle, then I hate it.

Stanced cars take away most of the suspension travel and some of the tire's grip just for getting that low. That means it won't ride as well, go over bumps, or perform as well as it could. That's why I hate it.

Donks and Mini-trucks also are hated by me for this reason, though low riders can get a pass because they trade ride comfort for the ability to raise and lower the suspension.

offroadkarter > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:14

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This should cover a lot

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/stancedlife-lo…

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Personally I think stance kids are the new posers of the car world. They'll clog up car meets, all driving generally the same car (slammed VW's or subarus), hang around and talk about how much swag they have with their BBS wheels, talk shit about other peoples cars because its not part of #datlowlife and isn't #illest.

You can make a car look good without making it impractical, and having a mark 4 golf on C4 corvette sawblade wheels does NOT equal a "show car".

We all have different automotive tastes, and as humans we are all entitled to our opinions.

Need I go on?

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:15

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At my desk? Nah mate, I'm at home, it's 23:15 here now. It's just that there's no point flogging a dead horse :)

DatASSun > Party-vi 01/15/2014 at 17:15

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What if I buy a truck and lift it , put big tires and some bro stickers in the back like a monster energy M .. with no intentions of ever going off road. ?

Or I put 3k in bucket seats in a s2000 with super light weight everything .. with no intentions of ever going to a track ?

What would be your take on those people..

TheBaron2112 > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:16

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1. It destroys the function of the car, which is the way it drives.

2. Bad taste.

But since driving dynamics are not a subjective thing, that is what makes me hate stance. Bad taste can still drive like a dream. Stance cannot drive like a dream.

HammerheadFistpunch > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:16

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Form > Function is great...for things that are defined by primarily artistic values. For things that are inherently functional, its just wrong. There is a way to stance and improve or...at least...not ruin the function but a core concept of stance is that looks take precedent over all. We like DRIVING cars, not pea-cocking about in them.

Party-vi > MonkeePuzzle 01/15/2014 at 17:16

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"Car guys" get all pissy when we see a performance car stanced, but in reality that car was probably never going to see a track or racing event anyway. As long as it brings the current owner happiness I can't be angry.

Anyone willing to breathe life back into an M3 is free to do whatever they like with it in my book.

DatASSun > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 01/15/2014 at 17:16

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I'm still kicking .. I just want to stick up for these people who really arent on oppo apparently ..

Group B-raaaaaaaaaap! > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:17

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2 reasons.

1. Most people here are racing enthusiasts. FUNCTION > FORM. That precludes stance, which sacrifices form for function.

2. Low-riders don't portend to be racecars, but stanced cars do. They detract viable quick and/or cheap cars from the pool. Low-riders, on the other hand, cannibalize malaise-era land yachts which we could care less about.
2a. It's not just stance. We also give shit to bro-dozers , donks , Prii , rental cars , other rental cars , and overpriced yet highly combustible Nissan LEAFs . That's just the crowd that has gathered here, I suppose.

RazoE > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:17

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I hate it because it seems like people do it to fit in, not because they genuinely like it. You can usually spot stanced cars (besides the obvious rims/slammed) because they have some sort of rear window shade, a bunch of "illest" stickers, a tow hook, and a shocker sticker here or there.

Also they drive super slow, especially over speed-humps and hold up everyone.

Textured Soy Protein > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:17

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Lowriders are just for looks but hydraulics and airbags work way better than a car with a non-adjustable suspension that's been chopped down super low. I mean, you wouldn't go around on a racetrack with a lowrider but you drive it at one height then hit the switches to slam it down to the ground when you park .

As for the whole form/function nonsense, stance irks people because generally, people who stance cars do it with cars that come from the factory handling pretty well, and can be modified to handle even better.

So for example, this M3. One of the main selling points of an M3 is it handles nice. But this M3, not so much.

Stance-haters are all like "why'd you have to go ruin that M3's handling just to make it look silly?"

As for myself, I think stretched tires on too-wide rims are both ugly and non-functional, so why would you ruin your good handling for something that is also ugly?

Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:18

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Not everyone with a Volvo is nice. Some lady gave me the bird from a Volvo once. Anyway, if most (now I'm not saying all, I'm sure there's a couple cool stance bros out there) "stance people" were like normal car enthusiats, I'd hate stance much less, I'd probably just slightly dislike it. But they aren't. They are all "YO YO YO I JUST STRETCHED MY TIRES SO WIDE THEY FALL OFF EVERY DAY AHAHAAAAAAAAAA" and when you try to suggest you maybe, I dunno, not stretch tires, they say "WOW MAN WHAT THE FUCK, WHAT A HATER, THIS LOSER IS A HATER FAG, GO DIE FUCKER". That has happened to me on facebook too many times.

DatASSun > HammerheadFistpunch 01/15/2014 at 17:18

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pea-cocking ... I love it .

I get it with these new stance ferrari and stance F50 liberty walk this or that .. its a slap in the face .. but we cant complain too much about a guy stancing his GTI cause they have made plenty for a few people to fuck up .. or "Stance"

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:18

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Show cars in general are despicable, even when they have big motors, perhaps even especially.

Also, Stancing often seems to be a cover for shoddy and crappy workmanship. It's not shitty, it's just stanced, it's the culture, man!

Party-vi > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:19

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Truck scenario: You're a guy that attempts to get women with your truck but for some reason you can only impress guys with tribal and barbwire tattoos. But that's Ok because you didn't waste my money on your Penile Compensation Mobile.

S2000: I wouldn't understand why you would waste so much money to add-lightness to your car for no reason, but that's cool. It would be neat to see how far the weight loss goes. I drove around in a Jeep Cherokee with no interior except the dash and driver's seat for 6 months. Didn't like it.

DatASSun > Textured Soy Protein 01/15/2014 at 17:20

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this is a common answer . The fact they took a car that was good and ruined it ..

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:20

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I love it, but I am in the minority here, hence my name.

offroadkarter > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:20

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brodozers are still assholes, they don't get a free pass just because their nitto terragraplers aren't at -5 camber

I have a lifted 96 bronco which has gone offroad, it is not a show truck and it has the battlescars to prove it.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:20

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Because it makes a car functionally worse, ON PURPOSE.

It is dubious fashion, AT BEST, that compromises safety, drivability, and the purpose for a car to be a car.

If you want a display... carve a statue, or make a model of a car that doesn't work.

If a car no longer operates satisfactorily as a car, it defies it's reason to exist.

And riding on the edges of the tires, and tearing the tires and bodywork up where they contact, ruining the suspension, and making the car drastically unsafe at anything faster than a walking pace, is dangerous, and frankly... stupid...

All for the sake of a 'look' that is supposed to impress people who don't know enough about what they are looking at to know that it isn't good. People not worth trying to impress, at that point.

I have no problem with a lowered car that is still fully functional. I have decreasing amounts of respect for increasing amounts of disfunctionality for the purpose of ridiculous aesthetics.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:20

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Low riders are typically old American land yachts turned into art cars. It's not my style but people put a lot of work into them and that's why I respect (many) low riders. Hydraulics don't take away the cars ability to drive on the street over typical obstacles such as driveways. Some of the paint jobs they have, while I'd never put one on my car, are works of art all by themselves.

Stance cars are a (ugly imo) appearance fad. They take cheap economy cars and make them worthless as cars. They ride horribly, often running cut springs and more camber than is even safe, let alone functional. Stretched tires are another unsafe, stupid stance thing and should be illegal if it isn't. They aren't fast, they don't handle, they aren't built with performance in mind. They are built to 'look' like race cars but they often perform worse than stock. They can't drive up driveways or over speed bumps. Taking a pothole in a stance car could break it.

Sn210 > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:21

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I'm generally ok with it. What bothers me is when it happens to cars that are valuable and highly desirable

ddavidn > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:21

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The function/form is that main thing I guess. I have an opposition to the stance culture because it isn't done right where I live. Most commonly, kids chop springs and/or adjust camber and call it good. I don't like ruining the functions of performance cars by making them unusable, but I try not to say too much. There are certain stanced cars I have been really impressed with, though. I am questioning myself a little on my feelings about it, after being impressed a couple times and learning more about the process. I don't consider these people to not be enthusiasts, even if I don't really like their cars. They most definitely think mine is ugly, but wouldn't hate on me for leaving it stock. I like stanced cars better than bro-trucks, at any rate.

Crap, I wasn't going to post anything in this thread... oops.

DatASSun > Party-vi 01/15/2014 at 17:22

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I agree gutted cars can not be daily driven unless your deaf already .

But we dont hate the S2000 guy who pointlessly spends money to make his car light with no intentions of using it ... we dont hate the truck guy who does all those things to make it functional but just uses it for the form ..

However Stance irks everyone on here ..

HammerheadFistpunch > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:23

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Look, scrooge McDuck can burn hundo's all day long because he's got plenty right? That doesn't make it less wrong.

DatASSun > Sn210 01/15/2014 at 17:23

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looks great tho ..

I agree fucks the car up but looks great

still looks great

DatASSun > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 01/15/2014 at 17:24

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I agree I love it . now I think my buddy who drives down the highway terrified of anything infront of him has his car a little too low but it looks great

Party-vi > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:24

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Actually I do hate the truck guy that drives a 4WD truck with mud tires and a 6" lift on the street and never takes it off road, because those fuckers usually roll coal like assholes or prevent me from see traffic patterns while I'm behind them.

N/A POWAAAHH > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:24

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Wasted tread? I personally love some of the stanced cars, but it seems like a waste to buy tires twice as much

DatASSun > RazoE 01/15/2014 at 17:25

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Meanwhile the rest of the world FLIES over speedbumps and wrecks more often then the stance guys taking it slow and steady .. I agree the stickers and tow hook this or that is a fad but I cant say the same about stance ..

YSI-what can brown do for you > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:27

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I don't like lowriders and show cars either. I don't like when a car's primary function is to look cool, rather than to be driven. We all like to make our cars look better and I will say if it is slightly stanced then it does look nice(and may help the handling if it was lowered to an appropriate height), but never at the sacrifice of handling or speed or even everyday drivability.

DatASSun > Party-vi 01/15/2014 at 17:27

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because those fuckers usually roll coal like assholes or prevent me from see traffic patterns while I'm behind them

You win this argument and the Truck drivers ... Fuck'em

Bet you would say those big trucks are more aggrivating then a guy thats in a good looking car that doesn't function

Textured Soy Protein > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:28

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Btw, that 240Z looks fantastic, love the rat rod vibe, but I would lose the stupid stretched tires and go for a setup more like this:

Lars Vargas was hoping 2020 would be quieter > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:28

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I don't hate it, but it's most certainly a choice I would never make for a car that I had to drive or own. I don't mind the look and some of the less extreme stanced cars look pretty cool.

But watching most stanced cars while they're in motion (and admittedly I have no idea if they were done professionally or not) they look like they're terribly bumpy and uncomfortable to ride in and possibly difficult to control. Not to mention they look impractical. I can't give specifics except to say that's how they appear to me.

I don't really look at the driver, nor do I care about the driver's race, so that's a non-issue with me.

Again, not for me, but as long as someone is making the choice to do this on their own and spending their money to do it, I cannot and will not criticize or hate. to each his own.

Forgetful > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:29

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looks great tho ..

Maybe it does to you.

Too tucked looks silly. If most of the top of the tire is buried the car looks like it's bottomed out and the wheel looks imbalanced.

Too cambered looks silly for obvious reasons.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:29

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Why would you want your 240Z to look like that... rather than looking like this?

Still low, but not mis-aligned or grinding against the bodywork (tires or pavement)

Still mean looking, but not junky and ratty, like someone wasn't patient enough to get the car finished before driving it around.

Still nice wheels, but they fit inside the fender flares.

I might not have tinted the tail lights so much... but hopefully there are nice, VERY bright LED panels inside the lenses, to remain as functional indicator lighting.

Forgetful > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:30

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Boy, I wish my car sucked at being a car like those cars!

JACU - I've got bonifides. > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:31

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I look at it on a case-by-case basis. I don't care if something looks silly. I don't care if something looks stupid. I don't really give f* all as long as one doesn't inconvenience me or others. I will, however, quickly give a f* once one does. I will also enjoy the derisive laughter generated by something that looks silly or stupid.

DatASSun > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 01/15/2014 at 17:31

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My car will look very similar to this but utilize something called BIG ASS MOFO FLARES ..

They add a inch to the front and back from 2.5" to 3.5 in the front from 3.5" to 4.5" in the back.. will loook insane and truly be the DATASSUN

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:33

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I'm not sure we can be friends anymore. Bring back by jeep before you destroy the suspension.

HammerheadFistpunch > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/15/2014 at 17:33

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dammit I hate lowered 4x4's

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:34

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Simply it's not my style. It's absolutely a fashion thing, and it's not a trend I'm interested in following.

I like cars because of the noise they make, because of how they look and because of the speed they can achieve. Stanced cars are neutered in that last respect.

I'm not going to shit all over someone's ride if I meet someone with a stanced car, but it irks me when cars that were built for speed are constrained to walking pace on any road that's not glass smooth.

It bugs me more when people do it to cars I like and end up scraping the underside to pieces and it rusts out.

I suppose it does ensure a good supply of aftermarket sumps though...

Group B-raaaaaaaaaap! > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 01/15/2014 at 17:34

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Wouldn't it be even nicer if your 240SX could look like this?

It even has camber on the wheels, but in the rightest way possible!

Blondude > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:36

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I don't have a problem with it.

Would I do this to one of my cars? No. Do I think it's a bit ridiculous? Yeah. But in moderation I think lowering your car and adding a bit of negative camber can look great.

I guess I'm more of a fan of the "rough" style than making my car resemble the Back to the Future DeLorean. But, to each their own.

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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:37

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Why? (honest question, no snark. Really)

if you will have a lot of horsepower, and big brakes, I can see needing the traction from wide tires.

But without those aspects... there is such a thing as too wide... when it becomes too heavy.

Unsprung rotating weight is the enemy of performance. It saps away acceleration energy, and overpowers old braking systems, causing them to fade, and become unsafe.

I like a set of meaty performance tires as much as anybody... but on a near-stock 40 year old Z, they will ruin the light weight handling of that car, and hinder acceleration and braking performance if the wheels and tires get too large and heavy.

And to me... the fender flares on that black car are plenty for the lithe sleek S30 240Z bodywork. Much larger would look truly cartoonish.

d00mZ > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:40

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I'm ok with it. Doesn't bother me at all and I'm up in Norcal where this shit is almost seen everyday. Honestly it looks good in some cars, but I highly respect those who do it because (hopefully) they know the "benefits" of having it stanced out. Here's a question: What's everyone's problem with people doing their own car? Now that's something that pisses me off. To me it looks like "they" haven't broaden their views auto lifestyles. Just another whiny excuse with no legitimate reason to like it.

Nonster > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:44

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Hate is a strong word, but I definitely don't care for stanced cars in the same way i don't care for bro-trucks. Both are modified for purely aesthetic reasons at the cost of functionality or performance.

You could argue that its a form of art or expression, which I guess it is, but for me the difference is that cars aren't merely art. A car is something that has form and function. I really appreciate the aesthetic of something that's form is born from or follows its function. Hence why I like the racecars, baja trucks, fighter jets, etc.

But I'm usually not one to badmouth people based on their personal tastes unless they are a massive tool

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Group B-raaaaaaaaaap! 01/15/2014 at 17:44

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Not bad... that is a track alignment, and it looks like a track car.

But I wouldn't call that "stanced" the same way it is referred to as an automotive sub-culture effect.

I am not a track racer/driver, so I prefer my street cars clean, anyway... since we've moved from Z cars to S-series SX 2+2 cars. (I like the fastback S13... but there is just something about the coupe version that captures my interest... usually with most cars I am the other way... I prefer fastbacks generally.)

Orange Exige > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:45

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I only hate when it's excessive.

That Z you posted - not excessive imo.

I like when cars are slammed (though not unreasonably low) but I really don't like the noticeably negative camber thing. Don't understand why people like that.

Blondude > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 01/15/2014 at 17:45

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Still mean looking, but not junky and ratty, like someone wasn't patient enough to get the car finished before driving it around.

Sooo, I'm guessing you don't like rat rods either?

No Prius Needed > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:48

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Lowriders use old boats that not too many people actually care about and were not fast or good handling to begin with. However, with stance people take great cars M3's, Datsuns (like the one pictured), GT86s, GTIs, etc and ruin the handling and stability not only making ruining the cars overall driving characteristics but also making them pretty dangerous to drive in the wet. I think it is also down to it just being a fad and like the MAD JDM STICKERS TYTE 10 SECOND CAR BRO FRONT WHEEL BURNOUTS BRO thing. It will leave many collectable cars ruined which just further adds to the hate since it is so difficult to find clean MR2s, Supras, Miatas now that aren't modified or stanced in some way.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Blondude 01/15/2014 at 17:50

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I prefer a painted hot rod as well. Even if it is a vintage-look single-stage paint that isn't ultra candy glossy.

Shiny wheels and a fancied-up engine on a rusty body... again, seems like the restoration is unfinished.

I can understand why someone would want something not to look freshly new... but I don't get the appeal of exposed corrosion and decay on display.

If a car's value is couched in the fact that it is absolutely original, and shouldn't be touched... then it shouldn't be touched.

If it is highly modified, it isn't original anyway, and it should be finished, not corroding... IMHO.

People disagree with that... and their cars are their cars.

HammerheadFistpunch > Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur 01/15/2014 at 17:50

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sounds like most youtubers are into stance nation.

CAR_IS_MI > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:51

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Function over form...

djmanila > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:53

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Stanced 911s

the same "stanced" 911s on track

RWB could be the exception. I say to each his own. Some of the so-called "Stanced" cars do see some track time.

As an enthusiast, I see some modify their car for looks since they have no intention on pushing it to the limits or taking it to the track. While some modify for performance or both.

No Prius Needed > MonkeePuzzle 01/15/2014 at 17:53

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But what about low riders?

Casper > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:55

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Why would you destroy a perfectly good performance car for no reason? The problem I have with stance people is they are completely the opposite of low rider people. Lower riders are specifically chose to be slow moving luxury barges to get attention and they know/admit it. Stance people are in some denial that what they are doing is actually a performance improvement for their car or that it's somehow art because they ruined their suspension.

Further, low riders spend a lot of money to keep their cars functional to drive, stance people ruin the cars completely for no reason. A low rider is low... and properly cambered as much as possible so it's still safe. Stance cars are stupidly unsafe.

djmanila > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 17:56

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Even Stanceworks has their own track car. http://www.stanceworks.com/2014/01/buildi…

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > HammerheadFistpunch 01/15/2014 at 18:00

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This.

So much this.

I like the term 'hard-parking' as well. Because they all have such a hard time trying to get over those curbs to park their cars next to all the other cars that look exactly the same. That's hard-core right there.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 18:04

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Why do you like it?

In your lead picture someone has taken a car, an object with a single purpose - to get from point A to point B, and reduced it's ability to function.

Because it is so low, it no longer can get to point B easily, if at all, depending on how high the curbs are, or if there are any potholes, debris in the road, etc.

It's one thing to lower a car's center of gravity to improve performance around a track or Auto-X course.

It's another thing entirely to remove nearly all function.

KB Garage > Party-vi 01/15/2014 at 18:08

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reads this comment

cuts off own arm

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Party-vi 01/15/2014 at 18:33

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This, a million times. No one ever expected a a standard 59 Impala to dart down a road course, for example, it was always built as a car for cruising, comfort and style, and that's what Lowriders usually go for. Well, at least the old school guys, from before they started hopping like crazy.

minein60seconds > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 19:20

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I mean, as long as I don't have to pay to replace his tires every 6k miles, I really don't care what the owner of this cherry Z does.

biturboism, the cult > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 20:01

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Yes, it's mine, too.
But I want to add something - to me the most beautiful setup is race - some lowering and degree of camber for trackdays - the functional scheme. But since my old car is shit anyway and it would cost considerably less to stance/rat it instead of redoing the suspension, brakes, engine, etc, I thought it's not that bad of an idea. But in the end I went with 80s stock look which only took a good clean and a wax. Now I have a harmonious looking car which is juuust right and doesn't need anything else done, because the 'build' is complete.
I think stance is popular because it is just that - you don't have to know anything about cars (in fact, it's better if you don't,) and it's the cheapest complete modification package you can get - because in order to balance a performance build you will bleed money out of your ass. Also, it attracts a lot of attention, which in the age of facebook whores is apparently desirable.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Group B-raaaaaaaaaap! 01/15/2014 at 22:32

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Oh sweet Jesus!!! So many of these 240sxs are put to waste by people ricing them out and trying to "drift" them it makes me cry. Not this time, that thing is BEAUTIFUL!

Party-vi > KB Garage 01/15/2014 at 22:40

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I gots no problem with tattoos. You cool :D

Party-vi > DatASSun 01/15/2014 at 22:42

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Yep. Way more aggravating than car guys. Then again I'm a Jeep guy so unless your 4x4 sees dirt on a regular basis I'm biased :3

Group B-raaaaaaaaaap! > YSI-what can brown do for you 01/15/2014 at 22:43

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Just a good, old-fashioned circuit racer. It's glorious!

KB Garage > Party-vi 01/15/2014 at 22:44

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In my defense, the "stupid one" I got was 15 years ago. By the way, it's still known as the "stupid one" and will be until I go have it removed. That's really no defense, but whatever.

Party-vi > KB Garage 01/15/2014 at 22:47

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I don't have any; thus far unsuccessful on convincing my girlfriend I need a quarter sleeve :(

KB Garage > Party-vi 01/15/2014 at 22:50

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Meh, if she's life partner material, she has to look at it more than you. Just a thought.

Datassunwoman > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 01/15/2014 at 23:22

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Dollar to you if you think this looks cartoonish or stanced at all .. its perfection and this is the exact stance my car will have .. different wheels , wing, tires , and color scheme .. but the fitment is perfect here..

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur 01/15/2014 at 23:23

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Way to make a blanket statement...all the guys I've personally met with stanced cars are some of the nicest guys I've ever met in my life. True car guys.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Sn210 01/15/2014 at 23:23

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That car isn't too valuable. And nothing about it is ruined or permanent. It's low...thats it. I happen to love that car, bet it handles great too.

Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/15/2014 at 23:24

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Well you just got lucky then. I've been treated like crap lol.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Datassunwoman 01/15/2014 at 23:31

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The front is not bad, but shouldn't go any farther... the back is a little much. The tires are further outside the main body than inside.

The scrub radius of the tires, and the leverage on the suspension and 40 year old design of the wheel bearings are not set up for that much wheel offset.

And the rear bodywork behind the rear tires is likely to take some significant punishment if there is any gravel or anything on the road.

I would call it lowered, not really stanced, but I would call it a bit too wide, and question the need for it.

but it is your car, so it is your deal... just try to make sure the car is safe enough not to become a danger to other people on the road, if it can't be controlled properly.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur 01/15/2014 at 23:33

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I'm sorry to hear that :/ you should come to the midwest...everyone is nice here. All the euro guys are super cool.

Barbarian772 > DatASSun 01/16/2014 at 16:14

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Optical tuning is okay as long as it doesn't make the car worse to drive imo. I actually like some cars with aftermarket bodykits, I just think that negative camber just for the looks is stupid imo. Tuning your car to make it faster is ok, tuning just for the looks is ok too, as long as the car doesn't get worse to drive.

Stance on real racecars/drift-cars is cool, stance on streetcars is stupid.

Hanzr > DatASSun 01/25/2014 at 10:10

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I don't want to argue anything, since this topic has been on for decades, and both sides have illustrated their points completely. However, I believe the photo tells the truth.

Hanzr > N/A POWAAAHH 01/25/2014 at 10:11

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The thing you should worry about more than an overly worn tire, I suppose, is the vehicle dynamics. Tail happy is not desirable under any circumstances.

7liter12598723 > DatASSun 01/25/2014 at 14:49

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I'm ambivalent to stance in general (it can be done well, to the right car, if you don't go super nuts), but virulently hate certain kinds of stance.

That Datsun in the above, is a car I'd not be able to talk to the owner about because I'd be mad the whole time and I hate that. Not necessarily because of what the end result is compared to what shape it was in when he started, but because of how much better it could be with just a few changes. I mean, some proper width wheels and tires for it's weight and suspension setup, sensible but still lower than stock rideheight, and a classic racing livery would change that car from a car I have to turn away from in disgust into a car I'd not be able to take my eyes off of. So stancing cars that used to handle until they can't, is one way to make me hate your stanced car.

Other ways to make me hate your stanced car includes huge camber and no suspension travel is stupid dangerous though, you get a Mk 1 GTI so low it's axles are rubbing on the unibody and with so much camber, your stretched tires are running on 1/2 inch of sidewall and 1/2 inch of tread shoulder, and it's honestly fucking irresponsible to drive more than 20 mph. I think that's why people on airbags or hydraulic adjustable suspensions get so much less hate, they're a bunch safer on the road. It's why people hate trucks with huge non-functional lift, "prostreet" musclecars with spring blocks in the rear for "stance", and Donks too, they're unsafe, they're of questionable aesthetic value, and they all have owners very quick to dismiss people legitimate concerns about the drivability of their cars as haters. That makes an unsafe setup the second way to make me hate your stanced car.

The final way to make me hate your stanced car is to take something classic and cut it up, smash it, rust it, half ass your fab work (especially when the parts you actually whole-ass shows you've actually got fab talent), and just intentionally make it awful, chasing the aesthetic of the various half finished projects you saw being DD'd on the road when you were a kid, not understanding that those cars would have received 10s of kilobucks in attention from PPG, if the owner had had the means. I would include most rat rods in this category, at least if they were made from shells that were actually saveable.

I know, I'm telling people to stop liking things, but I don't care, shit is awful.

dmtactical > DatASSun 01/25/2014 at 15:39

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Poor workmanship is what gives stance a bad name. And I'm not talking about patina or 30 year old Volkswagons with 400,000 miles of wear and tear. I mean people taking a car and making it worse instead of better. I bought a 2.4 swapped Neon once that was a perfect example. The engine had gasket sealer instead of gaskets and ALL of the wiring was torn apart and reassembled by ONLY tying the ends together. No tape, no fasteners, connectors, or shrink wrap. The body was missing an alarming number of bolts and fasteners. That car would have been much better off going straight to the scrap yard with a blown engine. I sold it for the value of the still functional drivetrain. Unfortunately this is happening in the stance scene as well and that's what is causing a poor reputation. As long as it's built with some kind of commitment to workmanship, I don't have a bias against the builder's vision.

dmtactical > CobraJoe 01/25/2014 at 15:49

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I'm not sure if you've owned a small truck but mini trucks are surprisingly capable, with the exception of trailer queens. Those trucks are dirt cheap and most are halfway rusted out already so scraping isn't really an issue. Besides that, air suspension is very popular with minitruckers and will support a load just as well as the factory setup. I've probably seen more loaded minitrucks than full size trucks. It's common (for me at least) to see one toting something like a motorcycle or dirt bike. Dropping a truck is incredibly easy and unlike most cars, it doesn't screw up the suspension geometry. Obviously stock suspension height is the most reasonable but I would argue that minitrucks are possibly the most practical and functional niche modified vehicles, besides el camino conversions.

Louis Subearth > DatASSun 01/26/2014 at 13:03

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As long as there's an air suspension under those wheel wells, that stance looks nice.

DatASSun > biturboism, the cult 01/27/2014 at 10:08

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MMM I love facebook whores ..

In your mild rant you say that its better if you dont know anything about cars .. Well I dont agree there just because the amount of measuring and fitment that has to be done for these wheels to tuck perfectly under or flush with the fender is ALOT ... Most of the stance cars have full blown race style suspension so they can adjust all the different angles for the wheels to tuck under the car ..